Curse

My New Name · Dec 20, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

thinking about buying it...
just 1 question for ppl that already bought.
aren't you guys scared of getting hacked and getting your credit card ripped off?
is it possible if u purchase stuff through ncsoft?

Gli · Dec 20, 2009, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Sorry, that's not a fundamental difference. The fact is that Anet is still providing you additional content for additional money; whether that content is worth the amount of money they are asking is a question for the individual, and that question is one of value, period - not "gaming value" or whatever other arbitrary "type" of value. If the costumes don't have value commensurate to their cost, people won't buy them, it's really that simple.

Because 2 things can be bought in a similar manner, they aren't necessarily the same. If you can't see how that applies in this situation, there's nothing I can say to convince you, I guess. You seem to be very eager to argue that apples are oranges. I think I'll take a few steps back from that kind of nonsense, thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Let me put it this way: if you honestly think that buying a painting or movie is fundamentally different from buying a video game, you aren't thinking about your purchases correctly.

That really doesn't help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

There's a reason chess sets with ivory chessmen cost more than ones with plastic chessmen.

Yes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

If you enjoy the grinding itself, you aren't really playing for the shinies. As I stated in the other microtransaction thread, if I wanted Obsidian armor, it would be a much better use of my time to work 10 minutes of overtime and buy that armor with real money - but that's because I don't enjoy grinding. If all you actually want is the shinies, buying is a lot better than grinding.

And if you do enjoy grinding, be thankful that other people are subsidizing your playtime by buying costume packs and storage panes.

You seem to be missing the point of the challenge-reward setup. And what makes you think I'm not buying stuff like storage panes myself?

I'm really going to take a few steps back from this conversation. You're making so little sense, it's creeping me out.

Burst Cancel · Dec 20, 2009, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

Except Factions is fundamentally different than the BMP or the costumes in that the extra content includes new skills, and therefore has a direct effect on a core aspect of the whole game.

Oh sorry, almost forgot about you. New skills isn't fundamentally different from new missions, new items, new music, new classes, new skins, etc. You guys are making up arbitrary distinctions that don't actually matter. Rather than retype my previous post, I refer you to my reply to Gil, because you two are suffering from the same basic delusion.

In short, you're missing the forest for the trees. Like Gil, you need to sit down and think about what it is you're actually spending money on when you buy something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

That really doesn't help.

That tells me that you missed the whole point.

-Sonata- · Dec 20, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelorin Eshmar

thinking about buying it...
just 1 question for ppl that already bought.
aren't you guys scared of getting hacked and getting your credit card ripped off?
is it possible if u purchase stuff through ncsoft?

Didn't use a credit card. Paypal was my method and the balance isn't tied to credit. No, I'm not worried about getting hacked and having it stolen. My paypal, NcSoft and GW logins, as well as passwords, aren't even remotely similar and are registered under two different emails to avoid any redundant methods.

Even if my GW account were to be hacked, that info is not tied into my paypal in any form.

Barb · Dec 20, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Whats with all this outrageous pricing these days, lets compare the content of the purchase:

1. $10 for two costumes, do not affect gameplay

2. $10 for torchlight, that is on sale from $20 to $10 now, which will last you 30-X amount of hours, 30 being minimum to finish the game, it has lots of content, comes with a free editor to expand the game, etc.

Seriously, be realistic. These costumes should cost at max $2. Better yet, they should make it a reward for beating a really hard quest chain in the game. People pay for the game and all its expansions. Thats good enough, we shouldn't have to pay for small new content like this, it should be done standard to keep interest and make people feel like what they paid is worth something. Do you really think alot of effort went into this, and that they had a whole crew of people working on it? If they did, like Runic Games did (Spent about a year making the game, used efforts of the whole company, charged only $20), then it would be worth $10 for their effort (well still I find that overpriced lol).

as someone said, TF2- free to play, just buy the game. Just recently they've added loads of new updates such as maps and weapons in the game completely free.

Why can't arenanet do the same? Especially storage panes, absolutely neccessary, 100% should've been made a free update since they didn't calculate how little space they gave you the first time, yet you have to pay. These game-altering updates need to be free to make it fair, stuff like costumes can cost like $2 or something since it doesn't give an advantage, but it does make you stand out.

KZaske · Dec 20, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelorin Eshmar

thinking about buying it...
just 1 question for ppl that already bought.
aren't you guys scared of getting hacked and getting your credit card ripped off?
is it possible if u purchase stuff through ncsoft?

Not at all. If it happens, it happens. There are ways of getting your money back if the NCSoft gets hacked. So far, this is no conclusive evidence that the NCSoft store has been hacked. The numbers reported so far do not show a difference between the NCSoft store and random chance.

tazer · Dec 21, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

people, seriously. what ANet is doing is a joke? so what should I call what Blizzard is doing? by having about $100mln monthly from subscribtion fees, they recently added pets for real money. don't you think it's just Greed with capital G?
come on, ANet is just trying to survive in nowadays not-so-stable economy and you blame them for it? grow up or at least stop whining about that. $10, $20 or even $30 a year is that much? in developed countries it is like a dinner in good restaurant, big deal.

I hope that GW2 will have such microtransactions from the beginning, it just gives more hope and chances for better game development in long term. because lack of money resources put GW1 in current situation.

Premium Unleaded · Dec 21, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

@Burst Cancel

If you can't see the distinction between access to skills (that amongst other things, work in PvP) and access to some skins for weapons, then frankly, I don't even need to make any further contribution to backup my viewpoint.

Barb · Dec 21, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

they have made Aion what it is for all their marketing needs, GW1 is what it is today because of activity, if it was still active they wouldn't make these kind of things, just as some one said earlier, this is just their way of making more money off of a dying game.

thedarkmarine · Dec 21, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel;

Let me put it this way: if you honestly think that buying a painting or movie is fundamentally different from buying a video game, you aren't thinking about your purchases correctly.

That really doesn't help.

Burst, your wisdom is falling on deaf ears.

Utility is utility. Some people just can't seem to convert these things to base value.

Mokeiro · Dec 21, 2009, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Yo man, i wanna more bucks, i'm hungry!!! (NCsoft stock holder)

Don't worry dude!, i have an idea to make BIG DOLLAR!! (NCsoft executive)

How?

We hire this guy and make him do shiny things, and then we'll sell in the online store for FAT DOLLAR!!!

And this wouldn't piss off our loyal players who supported GW?

Don't worry dude, our customers are like this one, they would buy anything we sell, coz they are supporting us, lol

Professor K · Dec 21, 2009, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Just bought both costumes. Very nice.

Gli · Dec 21, 2009, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

Burst, your wisdom is falling on deaf ears.

Utility is utility. Some people just can't seem to convert these things to base value.

I don't know why you and Burst are so intent on dragging the simple practical question of whether or not a GW campaign is fundamentally the same as a costume pack, into a greater abstracted discussion of consumerism, but I'll hazard a guess: you don't have anything meaningful to say.

If you think they're the same on a practical level within the context of the game these forums are about, go make a fresh account and add nothing except the costume pack and you'll see how they are not similar at all. Have fun playing!

Or just buy a painting and post some more nonsense on artlovers.com.

My New Name · Dec 21, 2009, 01:01 AM // 01:01

well i really hate anets idea of fun new content as $$$ maker...
but then again as ppl said after 5years of playing paying 10$ isnt so bad...
then again paying 10$ for a visual is just dumb...
still undecided -_-

Arkantos · Dec 21, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

I don't see why people are hating on ANet for this. We all know that tons of fanboys are going to pay $10 for this, especially because it's limited edition. It's like this in every game. They found a way to make money, it's what a business does.

thedarkmarine · Dec 21, 2009, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I don't know why you and Burst are so intent on dragging the simple practical question of whether or not a GW campaign is fundamentally the same as a costume pack, into a greater abstracted discussion of consumerism, but I'll hazard a guess: you don't have anything meaningful to say.

That's exactly it. We must have nothing to say because we're using real microeconomics principles in our argument!

That, or it's really you who have nothing meaningful to say?

w00t! · Dec 21, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I don't know why you and Burst are so intent on dragging the simple practical question of whether or not a GW campaign is fundamentally the same as a costume pack, into a greater abstracted discussion of consumerism, but I'll hazard a guess: you don't have anything meaningful to say.

If you think they're the same on a practical level within the context of the game these forums are about, go make a fresh account and add nothing except the costume pack and you'll see how they are not similar at all. Have fun playing!

Or just buy a painting and post some more nonsense on artlovers.com.

Let me jump in on this one. Basic economics states that people are driven to do things that give them satisfaction.

Now, given that, all entertainment dollars compete with each other. You might decide to buy Guild Wars costumes, go to a movie, buy some food if you're hungry, or whatever you want given finite funds and what satisfies you most at that particular moment.

There are two things that matter; the quantity of your funds available and an individual's desires. Based on this, someone who makes a bunch of money may not buy the Costume Pack (they could care less), while someone else making significantly less would (they live for shiny stuff).

While you may or may not agree with the conclusions that Burst is making, his arguments are based on sound theories of economics.

Gli · Dec 21, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

Let me jump in on this one. Basic economics states that people are driven to do things that give them satisfaction.

Now, given that, all entertainment dollars compete with each other. You might decide to buy Guild Wars costumes, go to a movie, buy some food if you're hungry, or whatever you want given finite funds and what satisfies you most at that particular moment.

There are two things that matter; the quantity of your funds available and an individual's desires. Based on this, someone who makes a bunch of money may not buy the Costume Pack (they could care less), while someone else making significantly less would (they live for shiny stuff).

While you may or may not agree with the conclusions that Burst is making, his arguments are based on sound theories of economics.

I don't agree or disagree with anything. You people do realize that this was only ever about what one can, on a practical level, do with a copy of a GW campaign and the costume pack?

You're pulling back a nonsensical distance into arguments that don't address that actual issue on any level. Money, competing interests and consumer satisfaction never even entered the picture tangentially.

Sheesh, I feel like I'm trapped in a Kafka novel!

thedarkmarine · Dec 21, 2009, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I don't agree or disagree with anything. You people do realize that this was only ever about what one can, on a practical level, do with a copy of a GW campaign and the costume pack?

You're pulling back a nonsensical distance into arguments that don't address that actual issue on any level. Money, competing interest and consumer satisfaction never even entered the picture tangentially.

Sheehs, I feel like I'm trapped in a Kafka novel!

And how do you evaluate what you can do with a campaign and costume pack? Customer satisfaction, or in other words, utility. Economics has defined all these things in a very pure way, and those of use who understand this find the holes in your logic very amusing.

By saying that these things are just tangential, you've demonstrated that you don't even know the core of the issue you're dealing with.

Gli · Dec 21, 2009, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

And how do you evaluate what you can do with a campaign and costume pack? Customer satisfaction, or in other words, utility. Economics has defined all these things in a very pure way, and those of use who understand this find the holes in your logic very amusing.

By saying that these things are just tangential, you've demonstrated that you don't even know the core of the issue you're dealing with.

For crying out loud, you people are relentless. You're burying yourself deeper and deeper into an argument that I'm not even having. 'My logic'? 'The issue I'm dealing with'?

Pray tell, what issue am I dealing with? Because I thought what I was doing when I first got involved here, was pointing out that a GW campaign is more than just 'content' and therefore not the same as the costume pack. I wasn't referring to economic principles, I was pointing out a practical issue. God forbid I ever find out what will happen if I post that an apple is not an orange.

So, once more, here's the only point I've ever tried to make in a conversation dominated by people who seem to have their heads so far up their own asses, they can see the fillings in their teeth: a GW campaign is not just content.